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DVD production failure?

 
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cydo
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:11 pm    Post subject: DVD production failure? Reply with quote

First I just want to say thank you. This DVD
is the best one I've ever had in my DVD player
so far. It gave me hours of pleasure to watch the demos
and even quite more whilst listening to the audio commentary tracks.
Sometimes I thought "damn, that demo is just too short,
there are surely quite more interesting things to say about it".

Ok, now to the dvd production failure. I've noticed
on the "oldschool" side a blurry wedge shaped area,
that looks like a production failure. Is that one
intentional or is just on mine (2nd dvd release)?
Nevertheless, the oldschool side plays just fine.
I tried to scan it, but unfortunately it isn't
good visible on the scans. Take a look on the "OldSchool"-Side.
It's only visible during daylight! I've made a
jpg on how it does look like (http://www.rype.de/cydo/mind.jpg 50kb) -
the scanner is just horrible bad, so please don't complain about
colors and stripes Wink


And here are some suggestions for the next DVD:

* Please put more featurettes on the disc. As we
all do know the demos (ok, maybe not all or
can't remember quite clearly Smile
the things behind the scene are the most
interesting parts of the dvd. How about
doing something about demo parties? This maybe
would explain the demo scene spirit a little bit.

Only with the Audio commentary track:
* How about using the left channel for the audio commentary
whilst playing on the right channel the original music?
Most of the time you refer to the music, and with
the "balance" button on our remote control we could just
do our own setting of volume mixing during those parts.

* Maybe use subtitles (english ones, just to understand you guys
a little bit better!)

* In case I didn't said it before: put more featurettes on the disc!


In conclusion: You all did a great job!

cya
cydo
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the scan. I haven't seen this defect on the 5 samples I got from the 2nd shipment, but if you have Nero you can test your DVD with the CD Speed application that comes with it (I believe you can also download it for free from www.cdspeed2000.com, not sure about URL exactly). There is an Extra tools menu, with ScanDisc as an option. Do a Sector scan on both sides to see if there is any read defects. If so, contact Dan @ Fusecon and he'll see what our options are.

BTW: The defect you scanned is actually on the "eyecandy" side, not the "oldskool" side. The label depicts the OTHER side's contents (DVD industry standard). Please play the modern side to see if the defect affects playing.

As to featurettes, they take a ton of effort, but I agree they're hella fun to produce. As always, we'll do our best.
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dmw
Site Admin
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Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 211
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: DVD production failure? Reply with quote

cydo wrote:
Ok, now to the dvd production failure. I've noticed
on the "oldschool" side a blurry wedge shaped area,
that looks like a production failure. Is that one
intentional or is just on mine (2nd dvd release)?
Nevertheless, the oldschool side plays just fine.
I tried to scan it, but unfortunately it isn't
good visible on the scans. Take a look on the "OldSchool"-Side.
It's only visible during daylight!


I can see this as well on mine. It seems your scanner exaggerats it a bit but it is visible in some light at certain reflections. I've also tried several DVD's and haven't seen any issues in playback.

I don't understand the manufacturing process well enough to explain how it got there but I'll pass the info on to find out more.

-dan
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here are the test results with nero cd speed:

OS: Win98 and WinXP
CPU: 1.1 GHz Celeron
DVD-Drive: Toshiba SD-C2512 V1013

Good: 99.91%
Unreadable 0.09%

http://www.rype.de/cydo/nerocd1.gif

On both sides ... !


OS: Win2K
CPU: 1.1 GHz PIII
DVD-Drive: LiteOn LTD122 VIL5A

looks like it doesn't correctly recognize the disc

http://www.rype.de/cydo/nerocd2.gif


OS: WinXP
CPU: 1.8 GHz AMD
DVD-Drive: Toshiba SD-M1612 V1004

same as the above toshiba...


on my standalone dvd player it runs just fine on both sides (except for the easter eggs, in order to check them, I need to know where they are.. Wink. sorry for the confusion about the scan: the wedge wasn't quite visible on the scan, so I made a hand drawn wedge - in fact it is a well shaped wedge, the one on the scan was done by me just to explain how it does look like. but you can see the starting "bow" of the wedge on the outer side of the disc on the scan which you can see perfectly by daylight.
and yes, it is visible on the "oldschool" LABELED side, which is in fact the "eyecandy" content side.


three more things to add:
* the idea of including a "setup" menu was a really good idea - even though I had to adjust my TV again after watching the demos in order to have a normal television brightness setting. But that setup isn' quite necessary on both sides. Remove one, and put in an additional featurette instead Wink

* why didn't you include the "flicker box" test? In order to run the demos on my PAL television I had to switch to Pal60 (or so called "Multi"-Norm) with my DVD player. The flicker box was just a good test for checking the 60 Hz play back. So I took the SpacePigs' demo to verify the 60 Hz (which failed on my DayTech 707 DVD player but worked perfectly on my Yamakawa)

* On my DVD-Player (Yamakawa 788) after watching the last demo on the oldschool side it returns to the menu but without sound in the menu.
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dmw
Site Admin
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Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 211
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:

Good: 99.91%
Unreadable 0.09%

* On my DVD-Player (Yamakawa 788) after watching the last demo on the oldschool side it returns to the menu but without sound in the menu.


I'll see what I get at home. If we say the DVD is 4.5 gigs then .09% would be about 4.5 megs but I'm not sure what it means. One of the last bits of data on the eyecandy side is the production notes and a hidden demo within the production notes section (just use your mouse around the screen to find these things). Then, once you find it you can try to use a certain arrow key sequence to find the demo (e.g. right, down, ... enter).

As for no audio at the end of the oldschool side you probably had the audio commentary on. If you pushed your audio button and switched to channel 1 you would hear the music.

-dan
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dmw
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Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 211
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 8:12 pm    Post subject: My tests Reply with quote

I tested Both 1st and 2nd pressings of the MindCandy DVD's (both sides) using my Pioneer SCSI U02 DVD player (slow). I got 100% good on both sides of both pressings. I used the Nero CD Speed (latest version on the website Jim mentioned).

I also got word back from the replicators (place I used to handle all the printing/pressing). They said:

Yes, we see the same phenomenon on our samples here too. These anomalies in the aluminum layer occur often and can be much uglier than this, however, we have never seen a case in which they effected the playability of the disc.

FYI, the jpeg has been enhanced. It appears that someone selected the area and adjusted the selected area.


There you have it... If you run into any problems let us know.

-dan
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cydo
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the information about the aluminum layer anomaly. And yes, the "someone" was me, who enhanced the jpg (as stated somewhere above) in order to acutally see the wedge.
I'm going to test the dvd in another pc drive and test it with nero speed. I'll report later.

cya
c

oh yes, it was my fault with the soundless menu, whilst using the audio commentary track and returning to the menu you won't hear the menu music. this is something for the 2nd volume: put some precommands to switch to audio track#1 if you're back in the menu.
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phoenix
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
why didn't you include the "flicker box" test? In order to run the demos on my PAL television I had to switch to Pal60 (or so called "Multi"-Norm) with my DVD player. The flicker box was just a good test for checking the 60 Hz play back.


Umm.. did you try the Computer setup? It will work on a television, you know. Smile
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2003 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, as Andy writes, the flickerbox test was not included for the TV section since all TVs automatically pass it.

On further examination of my samples of the 2nd pressing, I do indeed have a "wedge". But I tested both sides of that disc with CD Speed and got 0 errors (just like the pre-production sample, and the 1st run sample) so I still think they're okay. I don't know why you got one bad sector read...
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cydo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok, now tested it on a rather new toshiba dvd drive: no errors. that's interesting. looks like older toshibas do have a problem with this dvd. but well, on the stand-alone player it runs fine, so I'm happy with the dvd: no "production failure", no "bad sectors" (depends on the dvd drive)!
sorry for the confusion about the wedge, but I haven't seen such on other dvds - maybe because I didn't examined them closely Wink
about that flickerboxtest: uhuhm. I used it for testing my dvd player / tv settings to ensure that this combination works with Pal60 (and indeed the flicker box failed with a cheap dvd player, so I was quite happy that the other dvdplayer worked fine!). Haven't ever tried to use the computer setup because why should I check this one out this since I'm using a standalone/television for playback. I'll take a look at this setup.
Well, enough for stealing you worthy time - please go back and finish your work on the 2nd volume Wink thanks!
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