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What will Volume 2 bring?
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Philippe
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, slide-shows of winners' pictures (and others) gfx parties.

Real slide-shows with music like
5977 by Scoopex (really really nice one)
Scoopex Artcore
Seven seas by Andromeda
Photocell1x1 by Anadune & Madwizards
...
but it takes as much as bytes for demos?

You can see thumbnails and download these slide-shows at
http://www.synotec-newmedia.de/amigademos/index.php3

PS: Continue to fill out Wink
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 24, 2003 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

roy_sac wrote:
Trixter wrote:
Slideshows? Of what?


Images of GFX competition winners. Such as Peachy, Angel Dawn, Rack and Dream Design Images.

Also Slideshow of Demos who did'nt make it on the DVD (such as Odyssey by Alcatraz (hopefully) hehe).


Ah, excellent idea. Unfortunately, the Amiga art scene is not something we plan on specifically featuring on the disc. Maybe a future volume?
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Ashitaka
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ahem... well i was still wondering how the acquistion process will be performed, since it appeares to bring some technical issues...

You were talking about genlocks but were stating that not many of them could carry a good Y/C output signal, except maybe for the SuperGen SX from Digital Creations.
But on http://www.amiga-hardware.com/genlocks.html, there is quite an impressive list of genlocks ! A cannot believe that none of them can be found and provide good quality.

Maybe you could give'em a look... unless you've already done this previously... anyway i definitly wish you could find a descent output signal for your acquisition since i know how crapy the composite signal can be :-/


-------------
Anyway, i received MindCandy VOL1 a few days ago. I would like to say that the shipping process was only 2 days long, from Maz to here in Brussels (Belgium). Besides, the DVD is great, probably the only one i would keep if i was ordered to leave to a desert island with only one DVD Wink

The fact is that i knew nothing about PC scene, and i fell off my sofa several time while watching "Transcendental vistas" because most of them are so impressive !!.

But i wasn't so impressed in the beginning with the other side's first demos. Althrough i'm aware of the fact that "pc old timers" were almost weeping with nostalgia, i only found interesting to see how pathetic the demo scene was at his very beginning -no offence intended- compared the amiga scene at the same period. In that point of view, the historical "duty" of the dvd is fully reached.

A wonderfull masterpiece for everyone Smile

------------

PS : please be mercyfull if my english screwed up, i'm not using it very often

PS2 : hooo pliiiizze people, try to help Fusecon's crew to find PPC hardware. I've seen vidéos of PPC amiga démos (i only have a 040/Gfx card in my amiga), and they really, REALLY deserve beeing included in Volume 2. Thx.
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ashitaka, thanks very much for your opinions. I think we all agree that, as technically impressive as it was for the time, PC demos were usually behind Amiga demos by at least a year up until about 1995. Then things took off Smile

As for capturing, yes there are a ton of genlocks out there, but when you filter them down first by S-video output, then take the handful left and filter them by quality, then by the ones that do NOT require software to run (since many Amiga demos are self-booting), you are really only left with the SuperGen SX. It was/is the standard by which the others were based.
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byeaus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:12 pm    Post subject: Mindcandy II .. again :) Reply with quote

Hey Trixter,

First:
I would say, that the PC catched up in 1993.
The best PC Demo in 1993 was FC's Second Reality.
The best Amiga Demo at that time was Kefren's Desert Dream.
Both Demos were equally good. Amiga and PC were on the same level since then until the arrival of PC 3D Accelerator Cards and the death of the Amiga (Hardware).

I personally hate the comparision between amiga and pc as well as I hated the fights between Atari ST and Amiga.
I like to see the Demos as what they were and represented for the computer system and the scene at their time.

...

I just filled out the survey for mindcandy II ... AGAIN ... to add the Global Trash I+II Video Demos by Silents to the List of "don't miss" demos.
As stated in the survey, the Demos are VIDEO Demos made by an Amiga Group with Amigas, so why not add them, if possible ...

Roy
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tugesfnc
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2003 7:51 am    Post subject: capturing amiga Reply with quote

i have managed to capture a couple of amiga demos successfully with a very hacked version of winuae.
these captures are pal (320x256 at 50fps), but it should be possible to convert those to ntsc framerate (60fps) with a custom telecine filter.
so the main problem is to properly rescale the (not always completely used) 256 lines of amiga resolution into 240 lines of ntsc interlaced resolution.
but on the other hand, all the captures from mindcandy1 were also highly rescaled due to analogue capturing.

feel free to contact me for details or examples...
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2003 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've already done this. (BTW, you should be using 720x256, not 320x256. Otherwise you're losing resolution; see the beginning infotext of Desert Dream for a 640x200 example.) It works just fine, but many Amiga fanboys complain about the not-100-percent emulation quality of WinUAE, so we're going to capture analog.
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Ashitaka
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PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2003 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

héhé, not to mention that if you try to make PPC démos working on WinUae, you're in for a ride Smile

But honestly, if things are rendered correctly, it may be be interesting to capture demos from WinUae. Anyway, i'm not sure that anyone would complain -if you keep it secret Wink -

IMHO, as long as the demo is rendered correctly, compared to the same demo on a real amiga, i would recommend to make use of it as a source for your acquisition. Nevertheless, i think that quite a big deal of demos won't play properly that way. For them, errr, the y/c acquisition issue remain the same :-/

Hang on, anyway Smile
Having seen vol1 several times at home, i trust you guys to perform a great job once again, regardless of technical choices.

Tom.

__________________
Bruxellois de Normandie
Ashitaka sur irc :þ
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2003 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the encouragement. Smile When it comes to rendering them from WinUAE, the question is more "How can we tell if it didn't render properly?" I could do a three-way slo-mo comparison and probably still miss something that an Amiga fanboy would complain about, so just to be safe we'll probably stick with real Amigas.

That being said, I am planning on a multi-angle feature that lets people switch between the rendered demo and the captured demo in real-time using the Angle button on their DVD remote. Time will tell.

BTW: *CAN* you emulate PPC demos in WinUAE? I thought it was impossible...
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 2:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trixter wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement. Smile When it comes to rendering them from WinUAE, the question is more "How can we tell if it didn't render properly?" I could do a three-way slo-mo comparison and probably still miss something that an Amiga fanboy would complain about, so just to be safe we'll probably stick with real Amigas.

That being said, I am planning on a multi-angle feature that lets people switch between the rendered demo and the captured demo in real-time using the Angle button on their DVD remote. Time will tell.

BTW: *CAN* you emulate PPC demos in WinUAE? I thought it was impossible...


No, winuae can't emulate PPC demos.

As for the 'fanboy' stuff, i guess i'm one of them then. But probably not for the reasons that you have in mind though. I don't mind emulators at all.

All i can say is that if i were to make a demo (yeah dream on) and it was included on a DVD, i would want it to be recorded just as i created it. Just like a painter doesn't like it when they mess with his picture afterwards, just like a musician,... People who haven't seen the demo in it's original format will take the buggy rendering from Winuae on the demos as 'normal' (meaning as the original author intended). I hope this is not the purpose of Mindcandy DVD's. Perfectionists as you seem to be, this should be understandable, no? So 'fanboy' seems a strange description, at least in my case.

But why not wait until the list of included demos is known? Maybe then, a couple of people could decide how good the Winuae emulation is? And then, maybe some will be possible with winuae?

z5/A.D.A.
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I wouldn't rather wait to see if certain demos are "WinUAE-approved" and just rather make the decision that all will be captured via analog. People can always run emulators and/or make DVDs from emulator output; not everyone can see what the actual Amiga puts out.

As for "fanboy", I wasn't referring to you. I was referring to the many over-enthusiastic raving Amiga advocates who send me email like "EMUZ SUK AZZ! U R A lamer if you use emuz!". While everyone's entitled to their opinion, I react better to people who present logical arguments and are open to alternate viewpoints. Speaking of which, I completely agree with your analogy of a painter "altering" a work of art -- I wouldn't stand for it either.
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TeXeL
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PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2003 2:22 pm    Post subject: Volume 2 price Reply with quote

Hi. Volume 1 cost to me 18 euros. I know some people lost his money (or time) distributing it. Why don't you make the DVD less cheap? I would pay 25 or 30 euros without any problem, and I'm sure that the most of the people who bought the first DVD didn't care about the price.
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dmw
Site Admin
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Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 211
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2003 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Volume 2 price Reply with quote

TeXeL wrote:
Hi. Volume 1 cost to me 18 euros. I know some people lost his money (or time) distributing it. Why don't you make the DVD less cheap? I would pay 25 or 30 euros without any problem, and I'm sure that the most of the people who bought the first DVD didn't care about the price.


A couple reasons why we priced it this way:
- We believe it is a fair price
- We are not in this to make $$ but to fund the next project. And if we make some extra we pay ourselves a little (which we did). It wan't much but it helped a few of us get to the breakpoint party.
- In the US our price is average. Most new DVD's sell for around $15-20. If we priced it too high we would price ourselves out of the market and sell less.

We only have around 500 DVD's left at the moment and there are no plans to press any more Volume 1 DVD's. So, when they are sold out perhaps they will become collectors items.

Cheers,
-dan
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Mombasa Joe
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Volume 2 price Reply with quote

[quote="dmw"]
TeXeL wrote:


We only have around 500 DVD's left at the moment and there are no plans to press any more Volume 1 DVD's. So, when they are sold out perhaps they will become collectors items.

Cheers,
-dan


Hi..

Sorry, if this had been asked before, i haven´t found the information yet in this forum. But i wonder how many DVD´s you have pressed at all? Thanks for the answer..

Mombasa Joe
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phoenix
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PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2003 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We pressed 5000 copies of Volume 1. We originally made just 2000, then we ordered more after the slashdotting. Smile The survey and reservation list on www.demodvd.org will hopefully give us a good idea of how many NTSC and PAL DVDs we should produce for Volume 2.
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