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Editing for copyright
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zetmoon
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 9:27 am    Post subject: Editing for copyright Reply with quote

Just wondered if anyone noticed any demo edits aside from the clock wipes in the longer oldskool demos. I assume the edits were made for copyright reasons.

I noticed some editing of the Orange demos. In Megablast, the opening movie ("There have been mixes and dance tracks / put together in the past / but none can outrun or equal the power of megablast") was cut. Also in The Nonstop Ibiza Experience, the "God bless success / never forsake the soul" sample was muted in the voxel landscape portion. It's still in some other spots, just massively cut up or distorted. Unfortunately both of these samples make up a lot of the 'feel' of the demos. How long/blatant can a sample be before it's considered a copyright violation?

(On an aside, I also edited the Nonstop Ibiza .xm file for my own nefarious purposes. There's a kind of annoying clipped vocal that repeats in the latter part that I cut out. The editability of that demo is fun to say the least.)
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're very astute. You did indeed notice the two major edits for copyright. We went for what was recognizable -- if it was was barely recognizable to us, it certainly wouldn't be recognizable to a music industry representative. Since the Megablast and Ibiza sections were easily-recognizable sections, we took them out.
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zetmoon
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silly me, I posted this thread before I listened to the commentary, as the commentary for Megablast talked about it.

Whatever it takes to avoid any potential legal issues. Smile
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googlorant0801
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is one HUGE edit.

The credits of 2nd reality were chopped, which contains the best music of the demo.

That was hugely annoying as much as I already love the DVD.

Was this somehow a copyright edit?

--

the problem here is selling internationally. I don't know about the US but in the UK you;d be absolutely protected by fair use there.
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phoenix
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, it was an edit for time. We were strapped for time and space on the disc so we decided to cut the end scrollers/credits.. except for Cronologia, for some reason. Anyway, bug Trixter about it. Smile
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googlorant0801
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, but if any demo was going to get the whole thing you'd think it would be the daddy Smile

You know you should have posted some divxs/DVD files of just the credits.

Be a great advert for the DVD without giving anything away.

Plus it'll let me see the credits again, I do at least have the mods Smile
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dmw
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Joined: 30 Jan 2002
Posts: 211
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 9:46 pm    Post subject: Other demos we dropped due to published music Reply with quote

VIP 2 - They used a song from Fear Factory. I contacted the record label and was denied permission by them and the publisher.

State of Mind - Used a song by Senser. Very difficult to get in touch with. Never received an okay. At least there is a Windows version of the demo that doesn't crash: http://skal.planet-d.net/mind/

Propoganda - Used a song by Cornelius. I was able to make contact but nothing resulted. Never heard from anyone.

Bottom line is it is a pain in the ass to clear music. Especially when there is a publisher (BMG, etc.) and record label who have to give approval AND would both collect part of the royalties (if charged).

"I" don't have a problem with samples but using a whole song or > 10% of the song is used you can probably consider the demo dropped (in the case of future volumes).

So, for future volumes, unless the label is small we probably will not waste any time using published music that we have to "clear" in order to use. That demo will not be considered.

On the other hand, now that we have established ourselves it may be easier to "clear" music for a future product (if necessary).

-dan
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Sesse
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BTW, wasn't the "Megablast" sample from the Bomb the Bass track that was used as a base for the Xenon 2 (ie. the Amiga game) music? :-)
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robotriot
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sesse wrote:
BTW, wasn't the "Megablast" sample from the Bomb the Bass track that was used as a base for the Xenon 2 (ie. the Amiga game) music? :-)


yep, that's right, although the specific sample was only included in the album ('into the dragon' i believe?) version and not in the game itself :)
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Sesse
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, I think it's "Into the dragon", yes. I remember I searched for that CD once, without finding it :-)
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Dma-Sc
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And if a demo uses a cover of a commercial tune, would it be outlaw ? Confused
Also shame, because the great Grotesque demo on Atari STe uses the Punish Your Machine song (instrumental) by Front 242 ... Sad
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they didn't have permission to use the music, neither do we. That's the bottom line.

Cover tunes are somewhat open to interpretation. Yes, you are supposed to pay composer royalties if you perform a tune that someone else wrote, but the less recognizable the tune becomes, the less likely anyone will recognize the tune and demand royalties. Another factor is how much financial harm is caused to the owner of the copyrighted work. It gets hairy when talking about the project, because while hardly nobody in the industry will see the original Atari ST demo, many *will* see the DVD.

MindCandy took the responsibility for the PC Bleeper rendition of "I Just Can't Get Enough" that you hear in during the Spacepigs Megademo "copper bars" section -- we altered the contract because they were nervous for taking responsibility for the use of that song. We felt that it was dissimilar enough (it is single-voice PC speaker after all!) that we would not be approached legally and so we absolved them of responsibility for the use of that tune in the contract wording they signed.

Would I love to see that ST demo in a future compilation? Hell yes. Am I nervous about including it? Hell yes. At least you understand the issues.
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Dma-Sc
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 27, 2002 5:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trixter wrote:
MindCandy took the responsibility for the PC Bleeper rendition of "I Just Can't Get Enough" that you hear in during the Spacepigs Megademo "copper bars" section

Oh, it's the only cover tune in that demo? Surprised
Bah all ST-01 samples based mods sounds like 80's covers anyway! Laughing
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googlorant0801
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just re-iterating I'd love to see some credits posted for download as promos, especially the 2nd reality ones.

Any updates on the appearence of some of the promissed demos, a standalone version of the menu musics would be superb for instance.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dma-Sc wrote:
Oh, it's the only cover tune in that demo? Surprised


Wink There are others of course, but that was the only one they were worried about.

Dma-Sc wrote:

Bah all ST-01 samples based mods sounds like 80's covers anyway! Laughing


That's because they are! Laughing
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