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Which Player
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Guest






PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 9:53 pm    Post subject: Which Player Reply with quote

I'm just curious what DVD software you guys are using to play Mindcandy. My copy of WinDVD fails the "60 frames" test, but the version of PowerDVD I have seems to make the text "jumpy." It'll quickly shift a smidgen higher and then back lower. Is this normal/expected for Mindcandy? Or do I need to go in search of a better DVD playing program?
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most DVD player programs were written to play 24fps progressive movies, and just plain suck donkey dick for interlaced video, to put it mildly. They all deinterlace the output so that they only have to display 25/30 frames per second instead of unraveling both fields, shifting one of them a half-pixel down, and then displaying them in the right order for the full 50/60fps (which would take too long, I guess, even though any PC 800MHz or faster should be able to handle it).

The only software player that has passed the "Flickerbox" test was PowerDVD XP (4.0) with a GeForce card and Hardware Acceleration turned on. To minimize other issues, I also set my monitor refresh rate to an even multiple of NTSC (60Hz or 120Hz will do). That should pass the "Flickerbox" test in the Video-> software player setup section of the DVD.
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googlorant0801
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Power DVD 4 as discribed by "Trixie"
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Guest






PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2002 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I guess I'm SOL for the mean time. I have PowerDVD 4, a GeForce, etc, but I can't hit the right refresh rate to make everything work correctly. WinXP won't let you drop to 640x480(which is a bad thing anyhow due to having to shrink the video), and the highest I can go at 800x600 is 100hz. That said, how bad is 30fps? Is it really that bad compared to 60fps, or is it just not reccomended?
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're a bit confused -- make sure you have hardware acceleration turned on, and tune your monitor to ANY resolution, just 60Hz or 120Hz. 1280x960 is probably "best", but anything over 640x480 at 60Hz or 120Hz should work great.

30fps halves the motion quality. Things are not smooth.
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, that makes much more sense.Wink I went up to 1280x960hz and gave it a shot, and it's not too bad. The text in particular still seems a bit jumpy though, but I can't tell if that's due to flicker for 60hz, or something else. When I went to configure-information on PowerDVD, it said the framerate was 29.97fps. Is that correct?
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 18, 2002 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, THAT framerate is correct because it's the framerate of the MPEG.

Do the Flickerbox test (Setup -> Video Setup -> (picture of computer) -> go to the "flickering box test"). That's the only way to know if your setup is performing properly.
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metamorphosis
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guest: if you DO have to play the DVD on your computer (I really recommend popping it in your desktop player and relaxing in front of a big TV with great speakers and cold beer instead :) use NVDVD from nVidia, a great free player that does the job RIGHT, compared to that sucky PowerDVD shite.

Trixter: Long time no see.. I actually found a webcam-picture of Christopher from TG98, but the one of you is nowhere to be found.. What a slippery bastard you are. :)



(..and I still have my Hornet Archive CD, signed by you - exclusive stuff, oh yes..)
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phoenix
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 19, 2002 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gloom wrote:
use NVDVD from nVidia, a great free player that does the job RIGHT, compared to that sucky PowerDVD shite.


Hey now, don't diss PowerDVD (XP, at least). The NVDVD webpage says free to try for 14 days, so that's not really free unless you visit your favorite crack site. Smile But PowerDVD isn't perfect so I'd be willing to try it.

gloom wrote:

Trixter: Long time no see.. I actually found a webcam-picture of Christopher from TG98, but the one of you is nowhere to be found.. What a slippery bastard you are. Smile


Hey, I didn't know that pic existed - it's pretty cool, actually. I remember us all packed into that little demo jury room at TG98. Smile He had some pics of himself on his website a couple years back, but they're no longer there.

-andy (phoenix)
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Tankist
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I'm more than a little confused here - I'm trying to play the DVD on a mac iBook (yes, yes, imagine someone seeing a mac "running" PC demos...), so what's the impact an LCD has on this flicker test? I see what looks like the right hand "wrong" image, but with much finer lines (which is what I imagine you're pointing out there), but no flicker.
This is just for watching the thing in the plane tomorrow, but it'd be nice to know.
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metamorphosis
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diablo: I have a 17" LCD on my PC, and the flickertest works fine here, although you might want to tweak your "phase" and/or "clock"-settings if it doesn't look right.

Btw; you can run demos on your iBook aswell - Haujobb ported a demo ("Microstrange") and an intro ("Discloned") to MacOS. Originally for MacOS9, but I've seen them on a iBook running OSX also.
Check this link for screenshots and download-links.

Phoenix: Actually I dislike PowerDVD because I have an old version and the sound-quality as well as the picture-quality is pure garbage. :) ..and TG98 was great :)
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ivses
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:49 am    Post subject: Mac OS Reply with quote

Diablo: I don't know if you remember me, but I was at TG98 and sent a SCSI HD for scene.org a few years ago. I can run the DVD fine on a 18" LCD (through a DVI) and using Mac OS X 10.2.2. I bet that the iBook won't have any problems.

I hope that you are running 10.x, aren't you? Wink)))))))))

I have an old Powerbook that has to run Mac OS 9.x for DVD playback and it hasn't any problems either... but I hardly used it and haven't seen the whole DVD with it.
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Tankist
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gloom wrote:
Btw; you can run demos on your iBook aswell - Haujobb ported a demo ("Microstrange") and an intro ("Discloned") to MacOS. Originally for MacOS9, but I've seen them on a iBook running OSX also.

Ahh, if those run in OSX natively I'll give them a look (Classic? who needs it?) Thanks.

BladeRunner wrote:
Diablo: I don't know if you remember me, but I was at TG98 and sent a SCSI HD for scene.org a few years ago. I can run the DVD fine on a 18" LCD (through a DVI) and using Mac OS X 10.2.2. I bet that the iBook won't have any problems.

Yes BLR, I remember quite well =) Thanks again for that HD - it really kept us running at scene for a while, although I guess scene eventually moved to other hardware (I haven't been involved in a couple years though).
And yeah, it's OSX 10.2.2 but I honestly can't tell if it fails the flicker test. I've tried a few machines to see if I could get any kind of flicker and I see either a finer version of the right hand offset lines pattern (on the mac) or a lighter version of the solid boxes, but also offset by a pixel or two (on the PC).

One interesting thing is that I've tried using mplayer under linux and it also appears to not really flicker in that test, no matter what (setting at any number of resolutions and refresh rates in full or windowed mode). If any player fits the "fast" description, it should be that one. Maybe there's a tweak to be made there though - I even tried changing the number of FPS on the command line, but I think that just played 2x as fast.

I suppose this is more curiosity than anything else. I watch the thing on my projection TV normally =)
Thanks for the suggestions.
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Trixter
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diablo: You shouldn't see a solid box, either left or right -- it should be divided into two flickering halves. Your ibook/player is failing the motion quality test.
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ivses
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 22, 2002 12:54 am    Post subject: Scene.org HD Reply with quote

Diablo: I wish that I had sent the HD sooner. The important thing is that it was used for a good cause. Wink

I guess that it was meant not to last long being only 4.9GB. ;P
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